Integrating Fitness and Mental Health: Recognizing and Addressing Eating Disorders with Expert Jessica Jamison

In this episode of Wonder Boldly, host Christine welcomes Jessica Jamison, the founder of Revolution Health, who is both a certified personal trainer and a licensed mental health counselor.

Jessica shares her personal journey with eating disorders, starting from her experiences in middle school, and the impact of societal and familial diet culture. She highlights the importance of being eating disorder-aware in the health coaching space and the significance of marrying physical fitness with mental wellness.

Jessica discusses her transition from a personal trainer to integrating therapy into her work, focusing on intuitive eating and movement. She provides insights into her approach to exercise programming and the importance of listening to one's body.

Jessica offers resources such as a free intuitive movement challenge and a food and feelings journal, encouraging listeners to explore intuitive practices.

Episode Highlights:

01:54 Jessica's Background and Passion

02:02 Early Struggles with Eating Disorders

05:48 High School and College Challenges

07:29 Realization and Turning Point

17:54 Combining Therapy and Personal Training

20:37 How to Work with Jessica

To find out more about Jessica:

Website: https://revolutionhc.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessbjamison/

Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/dumbbellsanddonuts/

Transcript

Christine Santos: 

[00:00:00] Hello. Hello. Hello. And welcome to another episode of Wonder Boldly. Today I have with me, Jessica Jamison, founder of Revolution. What stood out for me when I first met Jessica, we met on a call, a networking call, and She is not only a certified personal trainer, but she is also a licensed mental health counselor.

[00:00:27] And for me, that really stood out. And during that call, some, there was a question being asked, And people were answering the questions and so forth. And there were many health coaches on the call. And she jumped in to say that she felt it was very important that people in the coaching health coaching space.

[00:00:52] become eating disorder aware. And I could tell just by the way she interjected that she was super passionate about it. So I've dug a little deeper, looked into her work, we've chatted, and I think that the two married together is really powerful. So I want to share her today with you and If she speaks to you in the way that she coaches her clients, I highly recommend you reach out to her.

[00:01:25] She is exceptional. I've known her for a very short time, mostly online, mostly looking at her things online, and you'll see it weaved in. Her passion for this is weaved in all through her website, which we'll share, her Instagram account. So I am so excited. To share her with you today. Thank you so much, Jess, for being on the show.

[00:01:49] It's so great to have you. 

[00:01:50] Jessica Jamison: Wow, thank you. Thank you so much for that introduction, Christine. Yes I am very passionate about what I do and I think, the rest of this interview will reveal why that is. 

[00:02:00] Christine Santos: Yes, exactly. So I'd like to start with telling a little bit of a story of how you first found yourself in a space of approaching or in An eating disorder.

[00:02:15] Jessica Jamison: Yeah. So it definitely goes way back. I would say I started having issues with food probably from around the eighth grade. And all through high school, definitely into college and into even early adulthood. And it changed, right? That how I was struggling definitely changed. But I, can pinpoint when I was in eighth grade, I remember this girl, we were in gym class, we were coming out of locker rooms for gym class, everyone had to change for gym class.

[00:02:43] And she comes out of the locker rooms and she tells the other girls, she's you're skinny. If you can put your thumbs on your hips and reach and touch your belly button. So I know everyone's going to start to do that, right? Like some thumbs on like your hip bones and then your fingers come over your stomach and can touch your belly button.

[00:03:00] She's if you can do that, you're skinny. And I cannot tell you from that moment on how many times throughout the day for years and years, I did that so much so that I ended up with pain in my fingers. And I think, I think there's lots of moments that added up to the struggles that I, that led me to the struggles that I had, but that was definitely a big one.

[00:03:20] And I think as we had talked about before the show that I started looking for that. I started looking for all of the girls around me who could put their fingers on their hip bones and touch their son, touch their belly buttons, right? And I wanted to be one of those girls. And I think that really was what started me restricting my food intake quite a bit.

[00:03:38] And over exercising for sure started around that time. And then I, and then eventually, I got to a point where I was almost, I was caught, right? Like people knew now what I was doing. And that's that more of when the more of the binge restrict cycle started for me so that I would overeat around people and then restrict my food intake.

[00:04:02] And then the overexercise for sure, when I would spend hours a day at the gym. And I think also playing into that. Is, having family members around me on diets all the time, my aunt, my mom, like everyone was trying all the popular diets at the time, one after another. And for a lot of the time in college and my young adulthood, like I would do that too.

[00:04:26] And, we can definitely talk more about this, but an eating disorder is something you can't see. 

[00:04:30] deep inside, I was really struggling, even thoughyou couldn't see it. it wasn't so much that I was trying to hide the behaviors, but I was trying to fit into what the norm was. This is what we're being fed through the media, right? TV commercials, books coming out on like the Atkins diet and South Beach and beach body, I think became big at the time. being in this system obsessed with fitness right? I just didn't know, like I thought everybody did it.

[00:04:58] I thought all of the girls in high school were dieting. I thought they all didn't eat lunch at school. 

[00:05:03] Christine Santos: Yeah.

[00:05:03] Wow. Wow. So the girl who said, the measure of if you're thin, you believed her. So you heard that and you believed her. Do you know, why did you believe that? Like why did you think, Oh yeah, that's right. 

[00:05:19] Jessica Jamison: I, I don't know. I think that's a great question. I think maybe it struck me because I was already immersed in diet culture because of the female role models that I had in my life.

[00:05:29] And I just want to say they didn't know any better, right? Like they were just, they were in it too, right? Like we didn't. This is what we're being fed through the media, right? TV commercials, books coming out on like the Atkins diet and South Beach and I don't know, beach body, I think became big at the time.

[00:05:46] Like they didn't, all the woman in my life didn't know any of this stuff either at that time. And so I think already being in this system obsessed with fitness right now, this girl says, Oh, you can measure it. Here's a measurable thing that tells you If you're skinny enough. 

[00:06:04] Christine Santos: Yeah. That made sense to me 

[00:06:06] Jessica Jamison: at the time.

[00:06:07] Christine Santos: Absolutely. And so this 

[00:06:09] Jessica Jamison: is high school, right? That was middle. That was, I think, eighth grade. I think it was eighth grade and then my last year of middle school. And then my struggles definitely went on to worsen in high school. 

[00:06:20] Christine Santos: Okay. 

[00:06:21] Jessica Jamison: And you said 

[00:06:22] Christine Santos: that. You used the word hidden. Did you consciously know you were trying to hide your behavior of overexercise, binge eating and then not eating?

[00:06:31] Did you consciously know that? 

[00:06:33] Jessica Jamison: Some of it. Some of it. So I think, but I, so I think I did, but I thought it was normal. Because I, so I went to an all girls high school and everybody did it, right? So I guess it wasn't so much trying to hide it, but I was trying to fit in. I thought it was normal. I thought that all of the girls threw out their lunch at school because they did, right?

[00:06:54] I thought that's what I was supposed to do. So say that again for 

[00:06:58] Christine Santos: us, say that's really impactful. Say that again for us. 

[00:07:00] Jessica Jamison: Yeah, so it wasn't so much that I was trying to hide the behaviors, but I was trying to fit into what the norm was. 

[00:07:07] I didn't, I just didn't know, like I thought everybody did it.

[00:07:10] I thought all of the girls in high school were dieting. I thought they all didn't eat lunch at school. 

[00:07:15] Christine Santos: And I think that. That is really a powerful statement because that speaks to conformity, what you think is the normal, you don't know something different. So at home, you have this diet culture.

[00:07:30] Again, they're not Intentionally trying to do anything. They're just doing the mainstream, whatever's happening. And then you're at school and you're seeing other girls not eat lunch and then talking earlier, even earlier on how to measure. So it's like in your ecosystem all the time. 

[00:07:49] Jessica Jamison: Exactly.

[00:07:49] Exactly. 

[00:07:50] Yeah. 

[00:07:50] Christine Santos: And so what was a tipping point for you when you were like, okay, maybe this is not the way, maybe this isn't for me. 

[00:07:59] Jessica Jamison: So I would say much later, much, much later. I I struggled all through high school. I lost my menstrual cycle. I had awful migraines. I had terrible migraines, right?

[00:08:10] I was dry. My mom took me like neurologist. I went to a cardiologist too. I couldn't go up a flight of stairs without getting dizzy. Like I would get, I would school from sitting to standing and I'd feel like I was going to pass out because my blood pressure would drop. And it all comes back to the fact that I would go hours a day without eating.

[00:08:26] No wonder I had a headache, right? No wonder I was dizzy. So I do that. And that lasted like years. And then again, I would say in college, it really went to the over exercise piece. So I would eat. I was, I would say I was eating in college, but I was trying to burn it off.

[00:08:43] So it was exercise bulimia is the DSM diagnosis. I've got to find that 

[00:08:48] Christine Santos: for us, please. Yeah. 

[00:08:49] Jessica Jamison: So we think of the DSM, the diagnosis statistic manual. So what clinicians use for diagnosing so bulimia, we often think that's like woman vomiting their food up, but there can also be the purging piece that is exercise related.

[00:09:03] So they are, we're trying to get rid of the calories. that we eat by burning it off through exercise. So is that categorized as bulimia? It is. 

[00:09:13] Christine Santos: Okay. Yes. Thank you. 

[00:09:15] Jessica Jamison: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great question. Okay. What was the question that you asked me with the tipping point? So I eventually reached the point where I wanted to start a family.

[00:09:22] I wanted to get pregnant and I couldn't. And I had previously been told in high school and I lost my menstrual cycle for being underweight. But I might have a hard time getting pregnant the time I did not care. I just wanted to be a fan. I was not thinking about being pregnant and actually at that time I remember being like, there's no way I would do that to my body, right?

[00:09:41] There's no way I would ever want to be a pregnant at. That would mean I would get fat. I was terrified of that, absolutely terrified. I went through years of my life saying I never want to have kids. Obviously years and years had passed. I think I was, I think I was around 28 by the time I wanted to actually try to get pregnant.

[00:10:01] And like I said, I couldn't, we tried it for a year on our own. There was, I went to an interfertility specialist. There was no reason that they could find why I couldn't get pregnant other than the fact that my body couldn't handle it because I was still very much in those disordered eating and exercise behaviors.

[00:10:18] Again, you would look at me and you would say, and people did, Oh, she's skinny. She's strong. She's healthy. I would, I got comments all the time. I would love to look like you, you have the perfect body. Like Jesse's so healthy. Like how do you do it all the time? How would those comments make you feel pressure to keep doing it?

[00:10:38] And that's why I'm a firm believer now that we do not comment on other people's bodies. Because I think people, again, they were trying to give me a compliment, but it, all it did was fuel that anxiety in me that I have to keep going, right? What I'm doing now is good. Don't lose it. Because you'll be criticized if you look different.

[00:10:55] And so I did, I went through a couple of failed IUIs. I've had. I've had more miscarriages than I do have Children at this point. And I finally was able to have my son when I slowed down and really took a look at how I was treating my body.

[00:11:10] Christine Santos: Thank you for sharing that. 'cause that's really a personal story and that I'm sure resonates with a lot of people. And it's so funny that you said about like the whole bulimia, and I always thought, again, my listeners know this, but just to say it, to be totally transparent, I'm not a clinician. I'm not a trained wellness expert, but I always thought bulimia was the binging and throwing up.

[00:11:33] Yeah. Binging and throwing up. Yeah. I did not know the other aspect that you just shared with us, so thank you for that. So you're trying to have children, you're having difficulties, so then you start, me what I heard you say kind of resonated that you slowly started to make changes? Or did you immediately say okay, I've got to address this.

[00:11:53] So there, 

[00:11:53] Jessica Jamison: It was, I would say it was a little bit, so like one thing that I did immediately was I deleted the calorie counting apps that I have on my phone. 

[00:12:00] I was logging my macros into three different apps a day, right? I was using my fitness pal, my Fitbit and another one. And that, that I was like, this got to go.

[00:12:11] So I deleted all of them all at the same time and stopped that. Some of the other things like I was also right trying to eat very low carb, right? So I started slowly be starting to be okay with adding rice. to my lunch. That was huge for me, right? Like even to just be like to have a, a half a cup of rice gave me so much anxiety.

[00:12:32] So that was challenging myself to do it a little bit slower. Those kinds of things and then shifting the way that I worked out. I took some breaks from running. I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it at all. It wasn't just I have to go out for a run so I can hit 10 K steps a day.

[00:12:46] I stopped tracking my step count. And again, I still went to the gym. I still worked out, but I stopped tracking it so much. And that really helped me stop like obsessing about it and start really like tuning into my body and listening. Okay. Like you haven't moved today. Like we gotta go. We gotta do something.

[00:13:04] You did enough. 

[00:13:05] Christine Santos: Oh, interesting. What were the signs that your body knew you did enough? 

[00:13:10] Jessica Jamison: Yeah, so I think, and that's the part of the work that I do with clients, right? So we talk a lot about intuitive movement. We're humans, like we, we actually, we want to move, right? But we have to do it in a way that we actually want to do it.

[00:13:24] So we can, we can tell like when we are back to answer the other side of it, when we haven't moved enough our back hurts, we get really stiff, maybe we're getting a little bit of antsy, we just know like I've been sitting all day, like my butt hurts a little bit, and then on the other side, We can almost start to tell the difference between like mental fatigue and physical fatigue.

[00:13:46] So how we can feel that in our body, like I feel heavy, like it would be, it'd be really just hard for me to force myself to do this workout right now. Like I just, there's that feeling that you can really tune into. And again are you sore? Was it just hurt versus versus pain?

[00:14:03] And I think those are all signs that tell you like maybe today's a rest day. 

[00:14:07] Christine Santos: Yeah. So can you speak to the sort of the intuitiveness of paying attention to your body and knowing when maybe today's a rest day? And I'm going to give you an example, what I mean, because we here out there, and I'm going to be totally honest and I buy into it.

[00:14:25] Some days I don't feel like lifting my weights or some days I don't feel like going for my run, but I do it anyways. Do it anyways. You're not going to feel like it would, the phrases that are in our ecosystem. Can you speak a little bit to that? 

[00:14:38] Jessica Jamison: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not going to say that's wrong.

[00:14:41] Motivation is just an emotion. Angry, sad. Like we don't happy. Like we don't always feel motivated, right? It has its ebbs and flows just like anything else. So intuitive movement, I would say I, I help my clients really ask themselves three questions to help figure that out. How you, how does your body feel today?

[00:15:00] You're doing a very quick body scan. This does not have to take a long time, right? You're looking for that, that feelings of that feeling of heaviness, right? Again, really? Am I physically tired right now, or am I mentally exhausted? Did I just stare at a computer all day? My brain is very tired, but my body feels okay.

[00:15:19] You're assessing for aches and pains that you have, right? Oh, my shoulder's really sore. I'm doing this. I say this my ear, should's been up on my ears all day. Did I do a workout yesterday and Oh my God, my quads are killing me today. How does your body feel? And then you want to ask yourself, what is your intention for this workout that you're trying to get it?

[00:15:38] So is it to, is it just a simply move? Again, I've been sitting all day. I just got to get some movement in. Is it to have fun, right? Maybe it's just to I don't know, amp yourself up a little bit after, just a really tough day. Is it to accomplish a goal? Is it that you're working on your first pushup from your toes and you really want to get that workout in that's going to help you get there.

[00:16:01] So number two, what is your intention for this workout? And then number three, what is going to bring you joy? So you're going to, you're, so a lot of times like I'll be like, I just want to get outside today. Like maybe I had a lifting workout plan, but it is gorgeous out there.

[00:16:15] I'd rather go for, do some intervals outside rather go for a walk, right? Being outside would bring me joy. Maybe working out with a friend would bring me joy that day. Maybe a zoom, the video is going to make you happy that day. So we're asking ourselves all three of these questions and that's going to help you decide.

[00:16:32] if and what you do for your workout. 

[00:16:35] Christine Santos: Oh, that really is good. Because, we also talk about in this space, you got to do the pushups and the pull ups and the jumping rope or whatever it is in your coaching with clients.

[00:16:48] Is there a regimen of what types of exercise or is it more to just move your body? 

[00:16:54] Jessica Jamison: Yeah. So that's a great question. So I am a personal trainer. So when someone works with meYes, I write their workout for them. However, I'm also teaching them the entire time we're working together, how to tune into their own body.

[00:17:06] So that eventually they can fire me. I do not want you to have to pay me for forever, right? Personal training is an investment. You don't want to have to do it for forever. So the first session, I am asking them how are you feeling today?

[00:17:19] How is your body feeling today? So it gets them used to doing that super quick body scan. And then I'm really digging into what they enjoy doing for movement. So in combining that with their goals. So I have some women who feel super bad ass after lifting heavyweights. Great. I'm going to program and program in more of that for you.

[00:17:42] I have some women who love boxing. So if that's you, like we're going to, I'm going to program in a shadow boxing to your workouts. We're going to do that. I have some who really like the spin bike. They have one at home. Great. We're going to program that into your workouts. I'm going to ask you, Hey, we have five minutes left.

[00:18:00] Would you rather do a cardio finisher or do you need the stretching today? So yes, I have written a program for you, but it's very customized. It's very individualized and it's based on how you like to move your body. 

[00:18:15] Christine Santos: So when did you decide to combine the therapy being a therapist with the personal trainer.

[00:18:24] Jessica Jamison: Yeah, I, so again, this goes way back. I'll try to keep it short. I had a very miserable grad school experience. I absolutely hated my master's degree program and my master's is actually in family therapy, which I do not do. All power to family therapists. You guys are amazing. I couldn't do it. but at that same time even though it was still in a very unhealthy way, I fell in love with fitness.

[00:18:47] I fell in love with lifting weights in that is what I wanted to be doing. I had a roommate who was studying to be a personal trainer and strength and conditioning. And I was like, I want to do that. But I was already in it. I was, it was too late. To switch. I felt I had to keep on the therapy track.

[00:19:03] So once I graduated, I promised myself I'd go out and I'd be a certified person. I get certified to be a personal trainer and I did it. So I was working my job as a therapist full time and then I would go and I'd train at my local gym, a few clients a couple nights a week. And then eventually I did make the switch to being a full time trainer.

[00:19:21] I completely left the clinical role behind. And that I would say working at the gym was fine. I was in, I was helping people with weight loss, right? Didn't really think anything of it at the time to be honest, again, still very much having my own issues, but I was helping other people do those same things, which is crazy to me now.

[00:19:40] Yeah. And then I had my son, right? Started healing. I started started the healing journey, had my son. I got a job for new, the personal training I was just didn't work anymore. Having being a mom, that was really the only reason why I left the gym. Then I got this job for Noom and I was like, wow, this isn't okay.

[00:19:57] However, I would say for Noom's like psychology of weight loss, right? The way that they phrase it, that is what made me say, wait a minute, I can combine my psychology my, my education and background in psychology with my passion for personal training and fitness. I just need to do it in a way that's more aligned.

[00:20:17] Christine Santos: Yes. 

[00:20:18] Jessica Jamison: And that's why, where I landed in the disordered eating and body image space while still offering the personal training and in the person that I work with, it's the same person. It's just, am I helping them in a therapy capacity or am I helping them in the fitness capacity, right? Physical health versus mental health.

[00:20:36] I do think that It was almost new, right? That helped me see these two things are so connected and we gotta have both, right? We've got to be working on both. And that was when I, again, I launched my own business and just had to figure out how to do this my way. In a way that, in a way that again, left the weight loss industry aside and really focused on healing.

[00:20:57] Christine Santos: Yes, I love it. So tell us how people can work with you what you offer to combine these two physical and mental health together. 

[00:21:07] Jessica Jamison: Yeah. So unfortunately, due to kind of therapy ethics and health insurance stuff that the two parts of my business are separate. So I offer therapy and I offer personal training.

[00:21:19] I'm completely virtual with both. I take most major insurances for therapy in Massachusetts and unfortunately for therapy, I can only work with you if you were in Massachusetts. And that's when I really specialize in disordered eating and body image. So I'm binge eating, emotional eating compulsive eating, orthorexia.

[00:21:37] So that's an obsession with clean eating. I did not know that. What is that called? Orthorexia is an obsession with eating clean. You're like a you're avoiding all like processed foods, for example, and focusing on Whole Foods? 

[00:21:51] Christine Santos: Yes. Okay. 

[00:21:52] Jessica Jamison: Would be, it would be it. And then body dysmorphia as well.

[00:21:54] But I think what I wanna add there is that you don't have to have a D SM diagnosis to work with me, right? You don't have to check Would mind us with 

[00:22:01] Christine Santos: DSM is. 

[00:22:02] Jessica Jamison: Yep. So the essentially I have to give someone a DI A DSM diagnosis of the diagnostic statistic manual. Has all the mental health diagnosis in there.

[00:22:12] I have to diagnose you something to bill your insurance, but it doesn't mean that you have to check all the boxes to work with me. I have women who come to me who are, again, they're at a very, they're at a very healthy weight. They're in a body society might deem normal, but inside they're struggling with so much food noise.

[00:22:30] So they're constantly thinking about what they're going to eat. Is this going to make me gain weight? Should I eat this? Should I eat that? Just so much noise. That's just impacting the way they show up in the day. Or I work with a lot of women who get a lot of like nighttime eating, right?

[00:22:45] So they're compulsively eating at night and they feel very out of control. But again you don't fit a binge eating diagnosis for that. And then any body image struggles I can work with women Who are weighing themselves constantly checking themselves in the mirror not feeling comfortable in your clothes, 

[00:23:01] All that kind of stuff. and then also on the fitness piece, right? So you want to start an exercise program and you just can't get yourself motivated, right? A therapist can help you with that, And really dig deep into what is going on for you that you're feeling that way. So that's the therapy side.

[00:23:16] And then on the personal training side, it is you hire me as your personal trainer. I write you a program that is again, very customized designed for your goals and what you want to accomplish. Thanks so much. And while I don't do weight loss there either, I'm okay. If you have that as a goal, we're just, we're not focusing on it, 

[00:23:35] We're focusing on improving endurance. We're focusing on building muscle, improving mobility, things like that. 

[00:23:41] And I write you a workout. We do it together virtually. I take you through it. I'm looking at your form, correcting technique. And like I said hopefully Teaching you how to program for yourself on your own, so that you eventually don't need me anymore.

[00:23:55] Christine Santos: So where can people start? 

[00:23:57] Jessica Jamison: Yeah, I think first I want you to identify which one of those you're going to need, like which one, where you need the support more. And then you can go to my website, revolution, hc.

[00:24:08] com. I do have both my services lists on there, though the website is geared more towards the personal training. And then for therapy, you can find me on psychology today. Just run a search and you can book a consult with me right through there or through my website, either one is totally fine.

[00:24:23] I do try to post pretty consistently on instagram at jessbjamison and there you'll find really any content related to health at every size inclusivity non diet approaches again on both the mental health and the physical health side of things and you also have a free journal 

[00:24:42] Christine Santos: is that true?

[00:24:42] Jessica Jamison: I do. Yeah. the intuitive movement, I have two free resources. So I have the intuitive movement challenge, and we talked a lot about what intuitive movement is. So it actually has those three questions that we talked about in there. And then it just helps you Or reminds you, to ask yourself those three questions and take notes for yourself for about a week.

[00:25:02] Some kind of like unique and different ways and you move your body is listed out so you can really find like what you love and what's going to work for you. And then my food and feelings journal is another free resource that I have and that is really helping you dig into why you are choosing to eat.

[00:25:19] what, how, and when you eat. Based on this idea that our thoughts, our emotions and our behaviors are all connected. So in order to alter or dig in deeply to an eating behavior, We have to be looking at how we think and how we feel about the food. 

[00:25:36] Christine Santos: So that 

[00:25:36] Jessica Jamison: journal will help you do that.

[00:25:37] Christine Santos: Yes. That sounds great. So we'll put all this information in the show notes so people can reach out to you. What is one action item you would give people that they can do right away after listening to this?

[00:25:50] That you think would benefit them on this journey. I only know I pick one. I used to say three, but I said, no we're, we just need one. 

[00:25:58] Jessica Jamison: Oh, man. Okay. So I just, I want you to, I just want you to dip your toe in some of these concepts, You don't have to fully commit yet. And that's what I tell people.

[00:26:09] If intuitive movement, if intuitive eating, if a non diet approach health at every size aligned approach, it doesn't work for you. You can go back, right? You can always go back. So I guess whether you're looking at my blog posts, my resources or someone else's that is totally fine. Maybe just start researching some of these concepts,

[00:26:28] What is intuitive eating? What is intuitive movement? What is health at every size? What is body neutrality? And just see if they resonate with you a little bit. Again, on my website, revolution. com, I have blog posts and almost all of that stuff. And I guess just start learning about it.

[00:26:44] Cause there, there really is another way. 

[00:26:47] Christine Santos: I love that quote. There really is another way. I love that. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for being with me. This has been so great and I cannot wait to share this episode. And I just want to say to everybody listening. I do a really strong vetting, of people that I bring on and just spending this time with Jess has completed that whole Jess picture for me.

[00:27:11] And if this speaks to you, I know it really spoke to me. A lot of the things that you said I was like, yes. And I never even realized that I had done those things when I was younger. Some of the examples you gave, like not wanting to ever get pregnant because you're like, I'm going to be fat forever.

[00:27:26] That was definitely me. I thought that for sure. And I just want you to know reach out. She is open. You can DM her on Instagram. Get her free journals. Check her out. She is there to help us and guide us and really make an impact for us. So thank you so much for doing this work. 

[00:27:44] Jessica Jamison: Oh, thank you so much, Christine.

[00:27:45] That means a lot. 

[00:27:46] Christine Santos: Thank you. Until next time, everybody continue to wonder